Its still true though mate.

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Strider

it's true- steve c. not that well known here- mathis got lots of publicity after world cup korea/japan- i think those who really follow USA soccer know who he is- but far from a household name yet. others like bocanegra(fulham - england) are better known as they have played longer in the usa- that being said- i'm sure bruce arena(us manager) knows who steve is. i would be very surprised not to see steve a starter for our world up team in germany 06 (assuming we qualify of course) ,

Hopefully you don't mind another American on here

Actually I've been a passive 96 fan ever since you signed Stevie Cherundolo all those years ago. Just never realised this forum could be done in English too

Anyway, I wanted to give just a little insight into the popularity issue.

Clint Mathis came to prominence in America because of MLS. He was one of the best players we had in the league for a few years leading up to the World Cup. Actually his popularity was greatest in 2002 and 2003 I'd think. This was because he was fun to watch, you never knew when he could explode in the game and score a wild goal. He scored some really excellent goals in MLS and was something of a rarity in the USA. We have a lot of "hard workers" but darn few that make you go.... "WOW".

Clint actually played much less in Korea than most (I use Korea only because hey- all our games were there) and his populariry afterwards was less than going in.

Steve Cherundolo on the other hand, is much less known to the casual observer in the USA. This is because he came to you folk directly from College at the Univ of Portland... he never played in MLS so was unseen by many. The only time most American fans saw him were in his stints with the national team.

I for one, root for Steve because I respect the way he's acted as a professional. He's apparently a fun guy, well liked, and works hard. Hes been with you for what 5 years now? Started with you in the 2.Bundesliga, and has grown with the club to a solid (I hope) defender in one of the best leagues in the world.

So ... while Mathis is probably more well known... Steve also has supporters (but they are often quieter than Clints)

Not at all. Bring your friends!



Steve has certainly surprised me. When we got promoted to the Bundesliga 2 1/2 years ago, we came off a fantastic, record-breaking season in the second league. But a few players really had problems adapting to the much faster style in the Bundesliga. Among them Steve. Over long periods of time he could almost be counted on to produce one or two huge mistakes per match. Many of those were converted into goals. Our defense was one of the worst in the league and twice we barely escaped relegation. Still, then-coach Ralf Rangnick never gave in to outside pressure and Steve was in the starting line-up most of the time. That also had to do with a lack of alternatives, since the guy who was supposed to replace him, Silvio Schroeter, was coming off a bad knee injury.

Then all of a sudden, right around the time our current coach came in, Steve elevated his game immensely. Of course he profited from a tight defense due to the addition of young talent Per Mertesacker, but also he himself had a major breakthrough. Now Silvio Schroeter is playing with him on the right side and the two take turns attacking and defending. It's a great arrangement and has resulted in one of the best right sides in the league.

I have to say that I never expected Steve to recover from his slump. He didn't seem to have what it takes to make it in the Bundesliga but he sure made me eat my words. To his credit, he never seemed to quit trying and improving himself, which is what Mathis could and should learn from him. It sure paid off.

Steve has been with the team for 5 years now and is expected to sign a new contract. He speaks fluent German and seems to be a nice and easy-going guy. Can't have too many of those in a team.

_________________
Konjugation eines unregelmäßigen Verbs

Ich bin fest.
Du bist eigensinnig.
Er ist ein dickköpfiger, unbelehrbarer Hornochse.
(Bertrand Russell)

Guys, sorry to interrupt you (and hi to the new faces erm yeah - here ;-) ), but don't you think this would be better in the 'dolo Thread?
but keep it coming ;-)

_________________
veni vidi vici
Gegen Rassismus
Remember Lara!

ok- back on topic- yanks abroad website (link from hanover site) has mathis possibly moving to 1860 munich. anything on this?

All I know is posted on BS anyways, so you americans should now it too:
They are interesting, Hannover's only number I heard was 200k€, that seemed to high. Then they are saying 1860 is interested and it would be up to mathis... we have to wait 'till winter break I gues... :-/

_________________
veni vidi vici
Gegen Rassismus
Remember Lara!

he'd probably earn way less money there, as Hannover will definately not pay part of his wage to get rid of him. So financially it would be better for him to go somewhere else.

_________________
Konjugation eines unregelmäßigen Verbs

Ich bin fest.
Du bist eigensinnig.
Er ist ein dickköpfiger, unbelehrbarer Hornochse.
(Bertrand Russell)

Well, it seems to be almost a done deal: Clint Mathis will return to the MLS. Local press quotes Brian Eylert as saying that this is 95% certain. All signs point to Salt Lake City signing him, since they have first pick in the draft.

Well, in my opinion this is for the best. Mathis apparently counted on the coach being gone soon, or else he woulnd't have attacked him the way he did. When that hope was shattered, he didn't make much of an effort to get out of the doghouse. Whether or not this is a question of character is pretty much irrelevant now. Clint's Bundesliga career is over. Apparently no Bundesliga teams wanted to sign Mathis even though Hannover didn't ask to a lot of money and several teams really could have used a good offensive player. Some second league teams did want him, but Clint was not interested.

I'll be interested in his side of this story should he ever choose to tell it. Clint is not a bad player at all. We all saw that in his first few matches for us. I honestly wish him all the best with his new club.

EDIT: should anybody wish to put the original article through a translator, it can be found here: http://www.hannover96.de/MODULES/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4999

_________________
Konjugation eines unregelmäßigen Verbs

Ich bin fest.
Du bist eigensinnig.
Er ist ein dickköpfiger, unbelehrbarer Hornochse.
(Bertrand Russell)

What is Mathis being paid? I seem to recall that he was getting something like € 450,000.

_________________
Strider

One site (which is not too reliable though) estimated it at € 850,000!

This is our self-imposed salary cap. Since he came during the season when we really needed players bad, it is possible that he is getting that much. But I don't know for sure.

_________________
Konjugation eines unregelmäßigen Verbs

Ich bin fest.
Du bist eigensinnig.
Er ist ein dickköpfiger, unbelehrbarer Hornochse.
(Bertrand Russell)

Well, according to the papers they can't:

"Mathis lagen auch Angebote aus der zweiten Bundesliga vor, „doch da wollte Clint nicht hin“, weiß der Berater. Aus der ersten Liga gab es kein Interesse an Mathis. "

_________________
I'm underneath the sun
And I'm underneath the gun

p-real wrote ,
thanks p-real- i'll consider this my german homework. **

ok- p-real- best i can translate this is it says mathis lay also offers out the second federal league forward (mathis has had offers from 2nd league??) but out of the first league gave no interest in mathis"... ok- so article says no interest-

thanks for the input!,

ok- my last point on clint-(points) . i think the guy has a lot of talent- enough to be a star (or at least a very good player in most leagues). but once a player & manager have problems it can be very tough to get things fixed. moving is sometimes best. Do i think Clint has been wronged? I don't know but it doesn't seem like it, disputes happen- changes in style happen. maybe clint was being immature, or maybe in someway he was treated unfairly.

What i do know is I wish Clint could do the really tough thing & just put his head down & work twice as hard....- that would show a lot of character and it doesn't appear he has done this-(i haven't been at the training sessions so maybe i'm wrong & he has...)

and my last point is while i think Clint is a talanted goal scorer- he is not even guaranteed a starting spot on the usa national team. In fact as wahoo pointed out- Clint didn't play very much in the last world cup and during important world cup qualifying games- he plays some- but not a player we can't live without. A good player yes- but not a savior for 'any' team.

Clint was definitely THE player of the MetroStars and won the"MLS Goal of the Year Award!" in 2002. When Clint scored, which was often, the Metros always won. The Metros would have won the league this year if Clint had not left.

You and Wahoo have to realise is that Clint's participation in USA games has been affected by injury. And he was an IMPACT player for sure at the World Cup....Also his success for the USA v Germany led to Bayern Munich bidding for his services - MLS turned that down unfortunately for Clint.

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Strider

i love mls- but can't really compare it to the top leagues of europe... again- not bad mouthing clint here- i like him as a player- just saying- he's not so good that the top leagues are going to put up with someone who is preceived(fairly or not) as a distraction.

not meaning to bad mouth mls either- i think the mls is doing pretty well for a fairly new league. were producing quite a few players capable of playing at the highest level which is at least partly due to mls.

The gap betweem MLS and the top leagues in Europe is narrowing - fast. At the beginning of last season Grimaldi from Arsenal joined the Colorado Rapids - and he figured out during pre-season that he couldnt keep up. He quit before the season opener! Also players like Reyna, O'Brien, Oguchi Oneywu (Standard Liege), Beasley, McBride, Bocanegra, Lewis, Convey, Freidel, Howard, Keller, Casey, Berhalter, Cherolondo and of course Mathis demonstrate every week that MLS experience is no problem. Recently Eddie Johnson was training with Man U and he didnt miss a beat. The era of Freddie Adu (and Eddie Gaven) is upon us.

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Strider

hey- i'm a proud american. I love it that we now have a real soccer league. and i do feel that some of my euro friends don't realize that we play some pretty decent soccer here. a little euro bias against usa players?- maybe the same we had here against euro basketball players a few years ago- but just like they did- our players will just have to prove themselves(& i think they are doing a good job of that-) - as you said- the gap is narrowing- but i feel it's still a decent sized gap

that being said- i do think with the nice group of players we have- if they work together & play hard- we can do something special at the next world cup. we did ok at usa 94, flopped in france, had a real nice run in korea losing a very tough game to the germans- so who knows what happens in germany- a)dont' qualify (dont' see that) b) qualify & flop (maybe but don't think good chance of total flop) or c) quality & have at least as good a run as in korea. which i think is very possible

Well, I can't comment on most of those players, but I have seen Claudio Reyna play for Wolfsburg and he was pretty average. Casey and Berhalter are doing ok, but are also average Bundesliga players at best. Mathis has shown his potential but couldn't translate it into constistently good showings even before his troubles with the coach started. So out of the players I've seen that leaves Cherundolo. And he is really good these days, I have to say. But didn't you say he didn't even play in the MLS?

But keep in mind that the Bundesliga is not the strongest league in Europe. It has an ok rep but the best players are in England, Spain and Italy. So if the players I mentioned are no more than average Bundesliga players, that still leaves a wide gap between them and world class.

Of course, that is not a comment on the level of the MLS. I know far too little of it to be able to do that. There may well be top class players or talents there that I don't know about.

_________________
Konjugation eines unregelmäßigen Verbs

Ich bin fest.
Du bist eigensinnig.
Er ist ein dickköpfiger, unbelehrbarer Hornochse.
(Bertrand Russell)

Well most of the players I mentioned are in the Premier League. BTW Reyna has gained much more experience since Wolfsburg (Glasgow Rangers AND Manchester City). You may not know that he was named to the last World Cup "First Tournament Team" with some pretty classy Brazilian company.

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Strider